What is the potential for Maine’s Outdoor Recreation Economy?
Before it was a state, Maine had already earned a reputation for its great outdoors. It began as a place where anyone could hunt and fish, and served as a summer destination with numerous second homes owned by celebrities and other wealthy individuals. Today, the outdoors are a major part of the economy, generating $3.4 billion annually.
A group of University of Maine faculty and staff teamed up with industry stakeholders to create the Maine Outdoor Economy Roadmap, which lays the groundwork for growing and diversifying the state’s great outdoors over the next decade. Collaborative partners, including the university, the Maine Office of Outdoor Recreation, Maine Outdoor Brands and others, launched the roadmap in January.
In this episode of “The Maine Question” podcast, a few experts who worked together to develop the roadmap discuss the various outdoor-related industries, their potential for growth and the potential challenges they face.
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Ron Lisnet: Hello, and welcome to “The Maine Question” podcast. Thanks for hanging out with us. I’m your host, Ron Lisnet. Today, the Maine Question heads into the great outdoors. Now Maine, of course, has a well deserved reputation as vacation land, and that history goes back all the way to the beginning of the state.
Outdoor recreation has helped define the state, and it’s also big business. It’s a big part of Maine’s economy to the tune of around $3.4 billion, that’s billion with a B. Is that the maximum potential that the Maine outdoor recreation industry could reach? What is the ceiling for it, and what would it take to get there?
Those are some of the things we’re going to talk about today. What kind of development? What kind of workforce is needed? What other factors might help it realize its full potential?
UMaine has been part of a collaboration that is looking at just that issue, and it has helped develop what’s called the Maine Outdoor Recreation Economy Roadmap, which charts the way forward for the next 10 years. That is what we’re going to talk about here today with our guests, and we welcome everybody in.
Maybe we can just have you start with saying your name and your title, what you do and how you were involved in this project, and why is that of interest to you? Why are you in this world talking about these things to begin with? Let’s start with Jessica.
Jessica Haight: Hi. My name is Jessica Haight. I’m the recruitment and retention manager at Sunday River. I’m here to talk about the workforce development piece of this. I participated in the recent Maine Outdoor Economy Summit and was on a panel there talking about similar things workforce.
It’s an interesting thing to see how much the state embraces and supports that from early levels up through higher education and beyond to people who are already in the workforce or upscaling them. I’m here to talk about that.
Ron: Jason?
Jason Entsminger: I’m Dr. Jason Entsminger. I’m an assistant professor of entrepreneurship and innovation in the Maine Business School. I’m our state specialist for small business in the University of Maine’s cooperative extension program.
In that dual role at the university, I get to do applied research, economic policy planning, helping businesses, connecting with industries like the firm that Jessica works for and really representing moving forward Maine businesses.
On the outdoor rec economy road map, I’ve been part of the core team over the last year working on implementing with our partners, like Maine Outdoor Brands, the Maine Department of Economic and Community Development, Maine Department of Agriculture, Conservation and Forestry, and other trade associations and industry associations in the state.
Being able to be part of this roadmap and seeing the process from the beginning of this current road map initiative to now on implementation phase where we’re starting to think about how we grow Maine’s outbreak economy in a sustainable and meaningful way has been a lot of fun. I’m really excited to talk about in this podcast.
Ron: Mikayla, you started looking at this when you were a student, right? You’re still a student now, but now in grad school?
Mikayla Reynolds: Yes. I am a master’s of business administration student. I have concentrations in sustainability and public and nonprofit management, which I think is really important for the sector when we think about outdoor recreation.
I was also in a special topics class that was led by Jason where we really focused on entrepreneurial ecosystem opportunities for outdoor recreation in Maine. I did an internship actually with Maine Outdoor Brands, thinking about the road map and have participated in outdoor summit and other activities as well.
Ron: Well, it looks like we brought in the right people to talk about this. That’s great. Anybody can jump in on any of these questions. Maine has obviously been a long‑time destination for people who love outdoor recreation.
Did that begin with hunting and fishing? I mean, there’s all also homes for the rich and famous when they want a summer getaway thing. Give us an idea of what’s the historical arc of all this.
Jason: I’m actually from away. I’m a new Mainer. I moved here in 2022. One of the things that I really liked when I moved here was learning about Maine’s outdoor recreation and its history, going all the way back to the role of our native populations, of our tribal populations and how they utilized Maine’s natural landscapes and natural spaces.
I grew up out west in Nevada. Coming here was like coming home just with more trees. Working with the tribal populations, really understanding from them the role that outdoor recreation has played in Maine’s history since prehistoric times, really.
One of the early stories that I learned was a tribal oral history about the moose in Mount Kineo, which is this oral history story from Maine’s tribal populations about how the mountain was a mother cow moose that laid in place there and the role of Maine’s natural landscapes.
I think we see that throughout Maine’s history. Henry David Thoreau was here in the 1800s. There’s a great letter from Teddy Roosevelt to James Sewell about the role that his time in Aroostook County played in his formation as a young man, as an army officer and Teddy Roosevelt’s love, of course, for natural spaces and the creation of systems that protect our natural spaces.
I always think that Maine’s history has always been tied to outdoor recreation in various ways, whether it’s on the water with tribal populations using waterways to transport or our inland areas where people are using lakes, rivers and mountain scapes to recreate and be in the outdoors. Of course, there’s the first phrase you learn as a new Mainer, “Upta Camp,” right?
Ron: Right.
[laughter]
Jason: The role of Upta Camp. We were just talking as we were walking over to the podcast about you guys got snow today, skiing and the role. I can only imagine some historical ski resorts and things like that. You live in a prehistoric place.
Jessica: Yeah. I’m from Southern New Hampshire, so I’m not from super far away. I moved up to Maine in 2020. Growing up in Southern New Hampshire, everybody went on vacation to Maine. We went camping here.
We went to summer camps here. My high school senior trip, we went whitewater rafting. Went up to the Forks. You go to Maine to go on vacation, whether you’re going to the coast or you’re going to the mountains, you’re going to go ski or any of those things.
As a New Englander, it’s just ingrained in you that you know these things. We’d all heard the name of Sunday River before I ever ended up working there.
I don’t have a whole lot of the historic background that you just brought, but I would just say from being a person who grew up here, everyone knows that you go to Maine to go on vacation regardless of what you’re doing there.
Ron: Now, are you a Mainer?
Mikayla: Yes. I’m a Mainer. I grew up camping, hunting, fishing and go seasonally every year. I have a license where I’m always constantly out hunting and fishing and just spending my time outdoors. Done numerous hikes in Acadia, climb Mount Katahdin, enjoy spending my time every season in some sport. I’m a Mainer. I spend time outdoors.
[laughter]
Ron: Let’s put some facts and figures to this. How big a business? How many jobs? What role does it play in the Maine economy? How many visitors? Are there any numbers that we could put to those questions?
Jason: You mentioned the total economic impact from the Bureau of Economic Analysis called BEA, for short. In terms of total number of people employed, Maine employs around 30,000 people as of the most recent numbers, which was from 2023. 2023 numbers, we had 30,000 people working in the industry.
That’s a mix of people working in seasonal positions at Sunday River, permanent positions there, people working on the coast, but also people working in gear manufacturing and in other sectors that support the whole wreck economy.
That’s one of the things I think is so important is these numbers that we’re thinking about, they’re about all of the ways that all the parts of Maine’s economy touch on outdoor recreation, not just one specific sector or another, but it’s this whole broad economy for the state.
We’ve seen some really notable increases in some of those sectors like manufacturing. Really thinking about how we bring manufacturing back in a new age way. We see a lot of firms in Maine thinking about how they manufacture outdoor recreation gear and apparel.
That contributed to $311 million to the state and which was about a 17 percent increase from the prior year. From 2022 to 2023, we saw that outdoor rec gear manufacturing in Maine increase a really large amount. I mean, I treat it as a economist, 17 percent growth in an industry is an absolutely tremendous amount.
Boating and fishing were $384 million. RV, a lot of our RV camps and other RV and retail was $265 million. Jessica’s industry, snow activities, which includes skiing and snowmobiling and snowboarding was a hundred and $108 million, which was a 58 percent increase over 2022.
Ron: How many employees at Sunday River? Any idea?
Jessica: In the wintertime, we’re just under 1,200. In the summertime, we’re about 400. We are open year round, and we do have some of those year‑round opportunities, but obviously, we’re bigger in the winter.
Ron: The outdoor recreation economy, is that a subset of tourism in general?
Jason: It’s more than just tourism. That’s the great thing. That BEA number that we have, BEA has created for about the last decade what’s called a satellite account. That satellite account is a special tabulation that the US Bureau of Economic Analysis does to understand all of the interconnections.
Accommodations, tourism, travel, those are that’s part of that. It’s part of it, but so is the manufacturing side, so is the retail side. One of our partners on the roadmap, for example, was Maine Marine Trades Association. They’re the trade association for boat retail, boat building, for marinas and docks. All of these different types of services play into it.
Even the things like we call periphery or things on the outside of the core be like insurance. Insurance sales to businesses are part of it. Finance is part of the industry. Research and development and innovation in new product technology is part of it.
Right here on Indian Island in Old Town, we have Johnson Outdoors. It’s one company that does manufacturing. We recently heard them speak when we launched the roadmap as part of a panel about some of the new innovations that they’re talking about there in Maine, bringing that engineering innovation here to Maine. That’s all part of the whole industry.
Ron: It trickles down and it goes in all directions. What was some of the spark that, Mikayla, maybe you can speak to this, that led to the creating the road map? How did this effort get underway, and what was the impetus to do it?
Mikayla: Sure. What I would say to that is I think that the intention is that we want to really pull the sector together. There are all these moving pieces.
The roadmap is really a strategic opportunity to bring together people from across the industry to think strategically and intentionally about where do we go from here, and what are all the layers of that and the partnerships that should be really facilitated to really promote, and strengthen the industry as we look down the road ten years.
Ron: It seems obvious, but the university being involved in that, we have expertise researchers. I mean, that is the role that the university filled, basically.
Mikayla: Absolutely. I think things like the class that was hosted is really an opportunity to bring in a younger focus on outdoor recreation, but also to think about the literature and how can we apply the literature to outdoor recreation from the entrepreneurial ecosystem perspective. Then also, an opportunity to really center in the work of the university.
There’s definitely opportunities for the university from the researcher perspective, but also as an opportunity to bring together different programs. If you wanted to have a summer youth program, that really center on outdoor recreation, that can be someone that’s facilitated through the university in some form with other partners. What would you [indecipherable] ?
Jason: One of the things that I was thinking of when you’re talking about this is just where you, University of Maine alumni, end up landing.
When we held the Maine Outdoor Economy Summit at Sunday River this year, I was checking out of my hotel room at the resort. It turned out there was a Maine Business School alum there who works in the industry, has a business degree and works in the industry.
I think from the university standpoint, we do. We have that expertise, but I think we also have deep connections to our industry partners, like Sunday River, to our businesses. That’s been the impetus for our involvement. The University of Maine has done helped out with a large number of these other roadmaps. FOR/Maine was one. Blue Economy was one.
One of the things that I think is really interesting about Maine is we were one of the first states to actually create an agency in Maine for outdoor recreation. That was created in 2018. It’s the Maine Office of Outdoor Recreation under the Department of Economic and Community Development.
Part of the roadmap impetus started with that, that the state has made an investment in terms of having an office now with dedicated staff thinking about the outdoor recreation industry, partnering with main outdoor brands and our other trade associations in the state that relate to outdoor rec, wanting to really think about economic planning.
They had started an initial effort, did some pre‑planning, received some federal money for pre‑planning in around the time that the pandemic was really reaching its height, seeing the role that outdoor rec was playing in the state as people during the pandemic were looking for more outdoor opportunities.
We saw huge growth during the pandemic in not only visitorships in outdoor spaces across the country and across the world, but also in people looking for and purchasing gear, experiences, travel tours, all of this stuff.
That’s really where I think the impetus for creating this 10‑year strategic plan came from, was that the state’s been making these investments in the industry. It didn’t just start overnight.
We’ve been working up towards this point, and the university coming in as a partner when the state was ready to sit down and utilize federal ARPA funds, American Recovery Plan Act funds, from the Economic Development Administration, to put together this 10‑year strategic plan is the culmination of several years of work prior.
Ron: Now we talked about hunting and fishing as the tradition, and that still obviously is a big part of it. We talked about skiing, of course, with Sunday River.
What are some of the newer activities that might start drawing people to Maine that are newer sports or newer things you can do in the outdoors that might add to the suite of options that are there now? What’s growing now and what might be coming down the road that hasn’t even started yet? Any thoughts?
Jessica: I think that one of the things that’s maybe, not necessarily bringing in new people, but bringing in the same people during different seasons is industries that ordinarily would be considered seasonal, like skiing, for example, and ski resorts that are turning into bike parks in the summer.
What do you think of a golf course? That’s traditionally a summer activity, and it lies dormant all winter. Cross country skiing and snowshoeing at the golf course, they have all this big area for it. Some place that was maybe always a snowmobile lodge, but they buy ATVs for the summertime.
You have people that already love these places that already want to come and visit here. Maybe they have a camp up here. Go to camp.
Now, it’s not just in summer or not just in winter, and they can find ways to utilize these beautiful properties that they have and all the lodging and all the infrastructure that goes around it. Instead of having it lie dormant for part of the year, they can use more of it.
Ron: It used to be in Bar Harbor that after Labor Day, it was a ghost town. Now there’s the shoulder seasons and, in the fall, it can be as busy as the summer.
Jason: I think we’re also seeing a lot of innovation around assisted activities. Electronic bikes, e‑bikes, electronic kayaks are being developed. Some of these assisted things, particularly as we understand both in the state and in the country, we have changing demographics of people who are going outdoors.
Boomers are going outdoors more as they’re starting to enter retirement and they are looking for equipment and opportunities there. One of our partners on this is the director of the Maine Marine Trades Association, and she shared when we were at a meeting one day on the core team an activity she does. It’s skating on the ice, but with a parasail.
Ron: A sail. Yes. I’ve seen that.
[laughter]
Jessica: That’s wild.
Jason: It is the most incredible wild thing. Their people are so innovative. People are coming up with new sports all the time. I think that’s like how snowboarding started.
Mikayla: Probably.
Jason: It was people came up with these new ideas. There’s this constant innovation in recreation. One of the things that I think particularly with Mikayla that the roadmap was looking at is also how we get youth involved. I think youth are constantly looking for these new ideas and they’re coming with all these crazy activities to do.
Part of this is looking also at the youth camps that We have University of Maine. We have a number of 4‑H camps. I’d never seen a state with so many 4‑H camps before I moved here in Cooperative Extension.
We have a lot of private youth camps getting people engaged in the outdoors. I think the youth are coming up with new ideas all the time of things that they want to do and can do. I’m sure it’s only a matter of time before there’s some new crazy ski sport that’s…
Jessica: I’m sure.
[laughter]
Ron: Maybe put the sail in on a skier and then take off.
[laughter]
Jason: Well, I always think about one of the first stories I was told by a colleague when I came here to University of Maine was that, I guess, at some point in time on the main campus, we had a ski jump?
Ron: Yes. We did.
Jason: Right?
Ron: Yeah. It looked very scary, by the way.
Jason: [laughs]
Jason: I was terrified. You could go see the pictures in the historical archives at the university. I’m sure it’s only a matter of time before somewhere, hopefully, not a university campus, that ski jumping comes back like that.
Ron: I think you said about 30,000 jobs in terms of the industry, the workforce. Maybe talk about growing that pool and the importance of workforce development? I know you’re particularly involved with that end of it.
Jessica: Absolutely. I think that what I said in the opening was that, the state of Maine is very invested in supporting these types of programs, which is an awesome thing to see. There’s lots of opportunities, grants, different things to help upscale, or upscale I should say.
I think that what we’re finding is the earlier you can get in front of people, the younger the kids are and present these opportunities as actual career opportunities, not just something fun to go do to have fun, which it is. It’s our creation.
This could actually be a career path. I think that’s really important. There’s so many different ways to try to get in front of kids. Businesses can do this. Something that we host is a career exploration field trip. We invite kids from high schools from all the local areas, which is a lot of towns. They get to come in and we have different career stations set up.
A lot of kids will think like, “Oh, I don’t ski. I can’t work at Sunday River.” It’s like, “Well, we have all sorts of other things that go on here too that have nothing to do skiing. We’re a business, so we have an accounting department. We have an HR department. We have marketing, which is really interesting to some kids and is a huge part of the outdoor recreation sector as well.”
Then we have the jobs in the trades. We have lift mechanics and we have snowmakers. Those are cool jobs that are really niche that people can go and see. We also obviously have a lot in hospitality with the food and beverage and the lodging.
Just opening people’s eyes and getting it out in front of them and not just the students, but also in front of their teachers who are bringing them there so that when they’re having these conversations with their students about what path they’re looking for and what are opportunities, “What do you want to go to university for,” and all of those things.
Making sure that the outdoor recreation is not something that is, I don’t know, has a stigma being looked down upon. It’s like, “Oh, that’s just for fun,” or, “That’s what you could do as a stopover job,” or, “It’s only seasonal.” There’s so much more to it than that.
I think just educating the general public from the kids all the way up through the teachers and everybody else who’s involved, the parents who are going to help these kids make decisions about where they go to college, it’s important to let them know that there’s real careers here.
Jason: I’ve had conversations with a colleague of ours in the Department of Education here at Maine, the State Department of Education, who is the specialist for natural resource, career technical education. Vocational education where outdoor recreation is one of the topics. Bringing that into our vocational and technical schools as well.
Ron: Let’s talk infrastructure. What is needed there to build out places to recreate or to improve what is there already? I mean, is that part of this?
I know you mentioned the golf course is there. You might as well go ski on it in the winter, or the hotel is there, now for ATVs or snowmobiles. Some of that infrastructure is there. Is there work to be done to build out what’s needed? Any thoughts on that?
Mikayla: Well, I think one big thing is there was the the main trails bond that was recently passed, which is really supposed to look at how do we plan out and really bolster the infrastructure around our trail systems.
Both the trails that are shared for ATVs as well as snowmobiles, but other forms of trails that also could be strategically put into different communities, especially our rural communities and just thinking about the planning out of that.
Ron: Public‑private partnerships. Is that part of the the deal here?
Jason: Yeah. I think that’s been talked about all. One of the things that has come up a lot in all of the economic planning I’ve done in the States since I’ve been here, but particularly in the road map, I think this is something Sunday River has faced, is housing.
Housing for workers that is affordable, has been a real challenge, especially in the last few years as we’ve seen shifts in our real estate market.
I remember it, the Outdoor Economy Summit, that some people from the communities around from the towns around Saint David were talking about what they’ve done to help create housing opportunities.
I know that in Millinocket, there are a number of housing initiatives going on where that is in the gateway to the Mount Katahdin area, Wildwoods and Waters area.
Housing has definitely come up. I know here at the university, we’re doing all kinds of research on housing infrastructure that we can build housing, but also how we deal with seasonal housing. Transportation’s come up a lot too. Is that a thing that you guys say?
Jessica: Absolutely. I mean, we’re in a super rural place. We’re in Western Maine. There’s no public transportation there. The closest city is Portland. You can get take a bus or a plane there, but it’s an hour and a half to keep going to get up there.
Even people who are in our community that want to be able to come to us, want to be able to come and work, it’s hard. There’s been a lot of different initiatives from different directions. There’s things as simple as carpooling with your teammates, with your coworkers.
It’s a community of people who all work together. A lot of them are coming from the same place. Having a conversation about that. There’s GO MAINE, which is, they have the ride share portion of it. They can work specifically directly with businesses or it can be anybody who goes on to there and help to get the ride share.
We’ve had talks with the Department of Transportation talking about getting bus stops put in. Obviously, that’s a really long game. That’s not something that you can do overnight, but those talks are happening.
Western Maine Transportation has or The Mountain Explorer, I should say, has a couple of different routes. I know there’s one from Sugarloaf to UMF. It’s really successful. It brings people back and forth. That used to exist over in our neck of the woods, and it isn’t something that’s happening right now.
There’s lots of, like I said, talks about trying to get that going again because the transportation is definitely key. I mean, the folks who can come in from out of state and drive up, that’s great. For all those people who live here that need to just be able to get to work, finding a way for them to be able to do it is important.
Ron: Where are visitors coming from? Do we have any info on the demographics? Are there markets that can be developed either in this country or internationally? Obviously, New Englanders make up a big portion of that, but it’s more than that.
Jason: Yeah. It’s definitely more than that. I think part of what’s going on here is, “How do we bring visitors in?” There’s also, “How do we promote the main brand,” which has been a large part of this, of what is Maine, the essence of Maine, and that being a large attractor.
A lot of the road map was thinking about this as well. I know in terms of of visitors, we do have visitors coming from all over, and the main office of Tourism, the main office of Outdoor Recreation, and the main office of Film are now combined under one single director, Carolyn Luecht. Then they have their own office directors.
There is integration between from the state level in terms of coordinating these. I know Carolyn has gone all over to various trade shows, so has our partner with Maineopter brands, Ginny Kordick, their director promoting both Maine products and Maine destinations in places like France.
In Quebec, we had the Maine Outdoor Economy Summit. There was a whole group, we call it family trip. Familiarization trip of a bunch of Quebecers who were down. People coming from Quebec over, but I think, really thinking about how we expand markets to people.
One of the startups that I know here in Maine is Maine Black Travel. They’ve seen them at a number of pitch competitions. I know she’s thinking about, for her own business, how does she create opportunities for people from diverse communities to come and feel and experience Maine from all over the country?
Maine businesses themselves are also thinking about this exact question of, “Where are new markets for our visitors,” and, “Who could come and visit Maine and feel comfortable here and come enjoy our natural scenery and our natural beauty.”
Ron: What part can New Maine play in this helping develop this, other than the obvious of educating folks for the next workforce and cooperative extension in particular? What part could they play in this whole effort?
Jason: I’ll talk about the cooperative extension part. I’m really interested for you to hear what our partners and our student have to say about the educational component, workforce development component.
Maine Cooperative Extension is really touching on all different kinds of things, from sustainable management of our industry. Thinking about how we sustainably manage destinations, how we sustainably manage natural resources, forests, how we deal with PFAS, and doing research on that, and doing education on that.
We have a large positive use development program within University of Maine Cooperative Extension that is bringing children into the outdoors, teaching them about STEM education and integrating that with the outdoors, aquaculture education and integrating that with the outdoors.
Then creating some of those early pathways for youth through the positive youth development and 4‑H programs. Then, there’s the business support that we do. It’s the work that I do as a state extension specialist.
Really, I think that outdoor recreation is touching on so many different components of what Maine Cooperative Extension does to serve the state in taking a research base that happens here at the university.
How we understand new technologies, how we understand natural processes, and building that into educational experiences for Maine communities in non‑traditional ways where they’re not coming onto campus to learn.
Ron: Right, and for the university, the part it can play here seems pretty obvious in some ways, but just can you speak to that?
Mikayla: Yeah. I think just having opportunities for students here on campus to reconnect with the outdoors. We have Maine Bound on campus, which I think is really great. I’d love to see. I’ve been here on this campus for six years. I would love to see more promotion of Maine Bound and the activities that they do. That’s just a small piece.
I also think continuing to host classes where you’re thinking about different sectors, particularly outdoor recreation, is really great to bring in that business perspective. Then as I mentioned earlier, I really do think there’s an opportunity for UMaine to partner with other schools or other camps to put together a youth program experience at the University of Maine.
I also think a portion of that could be from a business perspective. “Who is interested in creating their own outdoor rec connected business in Maine? How can we channel creative ideas and news about what would it look like to start an outdoor recreation business?
What would you be interested in, and continuing to also work with from the business perspective? How can we help consult businesses as they want to grow and upscale in their business?”
Jason: We do have an outdoor industry concentration in the MBA program at the Graduate School of Business. Anyone looking for upskilling at the graduate level in pursuing an MBA, we actually have an opportunity for them to earn the MBA and earn the concentration certificate in outdoor recreation initiative.
Ron: That’s great.
Jessica: One of the things that we’ve been able to do working with universities both, for a couple of semesters at UMF at UMaine Farmington, we’ve worked with their ORBA program.
They reached out to local businesses and said, “Could you present us a problem, like low hanging fruit, something that you guys just don’t have the bandwidth to be able to solve, that you’d be comfortable sharing the information?”
It was really interesting. There was a number of different businesses around in the area that all gave the students a problem to solve, and they hit it out of the park. The kids did a great job.
Jason: That’s great.
Jessica: We’re about to roll into our second version of doing that, and I’ve also been approached by Buffy.
Mikayla: One of the [indecipherable] .
Jessica: Exactly. Through one of our team members who is a graduate of your program who works with us at Sunday River, he helped us make the connection and talked about when he was a student here, he participated in that.
It was the Wyman’s blueberry thing where they worked with the local main business so the kids could find something out. We’re going to do the same thing. It’s going to be on the spring of next year, but we’re going to continue to collaborate with the university so that we can…
It’s business, but it’s also outdoor rec. It’s all of those pieces that intertwined together without being super obvious. It’s not guiding or skiing, but it’s the business part of it, which is what makes it all go around and keeps it working.
Ron: Would Bethel qualify as a rural Maine?
Jessica: Oh, yes.
Ron: Talk about that maybe from your perspective. What would smart, well planned development do for rural Maine, a town like Bethel or others?
Jessica: When we chose to move there in 2020, we looked at a lot of different towns in the area. It was like, “This is clearly the town we want to move to because the resort is there.” There’s other things in the town. It enables it to have, “We have great restaurants. We have a really fun, cool little movie theater that does other local community theater things.”
Over February vacation, it was a windhole day, so nobody could ski. The bowling alley was packed. It’s just good for all the other businesses in town. There’s other lodging in town, like I said, other restaurants.
For people to be able to come to a place and not go, “Well, this is the only thing to do here,” but, “Oh, if it’s a rainy day, here’s these other things we can go do,” or whatever else is there. There’s the gem museum. In the summertime, people come up there to go camping or hiking, but there’s also all the sluicing in Rock County that happens in the area.
More the little community, the more new businesses come in that support outdoor rec, the more it lifts everybody else up.
Ron: Let’s talk about trends. With young people, the phone, social media is something that takes up a lot of their time and energy. Have outdoor recreation trends changed among the younger crowd, and does that have to be taken into account here?
Mikayla: While you’re looking at me…
[laughter]
Mikayla: I enjoy spending a lot of time out outdoors. I think, for me, it really comes from a place of wellness, well‑being and health. I think for young people who are looking to be healthier versions of themselves or who are thinking about, “How can I disconnect or detach in this very digital era?”
Being outside is a great way to do that, to spend time outdoors, get vitamin D, move your body around? It’s just really great.
I think more people are leaning into that. I think the trend of more low‑impact activities as a way for people to, as beginners, get out into the outdoor rec activities really sets the stage for potentially discovering maybe as a hobby, but then moving into, “This is actually a passion.” Then maybe it’s something where younger people are, “Maybe I could make a career out of this.”
Ron: Correct.
Mikayla: For me, it really comes from a health and well‑being perspective. I think that’s where I think a lot of folks my age and then the younger generations are starting from.
Ron: You’re not an outlier? I mean, there’s plenty of people that think the way you do?
Mikayla: Yeah. I think more often than not, you ask me, “What are your hobbies?” I think hiking comes up a lot. I think spending time outside. I think outdoor yoga is something also that a lot of folks have been chatting about. Definitely not an outlier. Maybe I’m more intense in that. I do it all the time. I grew up hunting and fishing and that thing, but people want to spend time outdoors.
[crosstalk]
Ron: Go ahead.
Jason: What are you seeing at Sunday River? Are you seeing shifts in North Trent or with your visitors and your workers and who’s interested?
Jessica: Well, I will say, sometimes these sports can be expensive. That is harder for younger people. I think that the important thing is to continue to make these things accessible to everybody.
If you are a business that is surrounded by a rural area, is there any way that you can give discounts to your local people? Just one example is, we have a community pass for kids who are in the local school districts.
They can get a much less expensive ski pass so that they can come and actually learn to do it. Whereas, otherwise, maybe they wouldn’t have learned that. If there’s a snow day, the skiing is free for the kids in the school district.
A lot of people are there and their kids are, “Where are they going to go if they don’t get snow days?” There’s just little things that can be done to, I guess, try to help introduce youth to different things. I know there’s a lot of programs for it that are out there that will help.
I remember seeing the L.L.Bean boxes on the beach a couple of years ago. It was like a little pod box that they put out there with a whole bunch of beach gear that maybe someone doesn’t have all this stuff. They can go there, they can use it, they can play with it while they’re on the beach, and they put it back.
To have the opportunity to be able to go and do these other sports that maybe they wouldn’t have tried is really important.
Mikayla: I would also say there’s a lot of gear libraries, I think…
[crosstalk]
Ron: Right.
Mikayla: I hear people who can rent them out or you can check them out for a short period of time at no or a low cost.
I think that’s really crucial and is one of those things that will decrease the cost barrier, but also allow someone to try something out without having to do the huge investment of, “I have to really subscribe to this as my identity if I’m going to spend hundreds of dollars on this equipment,” versus being able to try it out.
Ron: Maine Bound here for UMaine students has that. They rent gear out all the time. Final question for all. Three you can weigh in on this. I mean, I think we all agree that the potential here to grow this, I mean, it’s already a huge industry, but the potential is even higher than that. What might this industry look like in 5 to 10 years? Whoever wants to take a crack at it first.
[crosstalk]
Jason: I was going to say, I mean, I think one of the things that I think about is just how much technology is changing actually in the sector. It doesn’t seem like it sometimes, because we’ve got very traditional activities like skiing, like hiking, hunting, and fishing.
In some ways, the industry allows us to connect with that culture. In many ways, also technology is shifting how we recreate. The use of apps. My partner is a equestrian and has an application that tracks their horse rides.
I mean, there is all kinds of ingenuity happening in this space, whether it’s digital or actually in the gear and tech and equipment component. Where that leads the industry, I think, will be really interesting as we increasingly see the need for technology in the industry.
I think here in Maine, one of the challenges we have is how do we have sustainable growth. You asked about rural communities earlier.
I know one of the things that rural communities see both as an opportunity and a challenge is as the industry in the state grows, how can they be part of that, but still maintain both their identity and the sustainability of their communities without being over‑touristed.
That over‑touristing has been a huge issue in the visitor space, but also in the natural resource use space. I think about people who are engaged in rock climbing and if you get too many rock climbers in a space at one time, it destroys the overall experience.
Really thinking about how we manage that growth in a sustainable way is part of what the 10‑year road map is trying to do. We want to see positive growth for Maine, but we don’t want it to be so much that it harms the actual enjoyment of Maine for Mainers and for our visitors.
Ron: Your thoughts. Are you upbeat about the next chunk of time here?
Mikayla: I’m upbeat about everything.
Jessica: Fair enough.
[laughter]
Jessica: I just see growth and expansion. More people that get the opportunity to come and see things, the more the merrier. I mean, that’s the way I look at it. I’m not from here specifically, but I was welcomed into the community when I came. I don’t see why we can’t just welcome want people to come and enjoy themselves.
Jason: I was really touched when we were at Moe’s about the conversation during one of the panels around how Sunday River is growing sustainably in your own practices about how you manage the resort in terms of, I think, the way you make snow. All these kinds of things are really interesting ways at a business level, at a micro level…
Jessica: Absolutely.
Jason: propelling sustainable growth for Sunday River.
Jessica: There’s a 20‑30 plan that’s put in place. Our parent company has a a lot to do with it as well. It’s a forever project. We want to continue to be here. The weather’s changing. It’s raining out now instead of snowing. We want to be able to still have snow. We want people to still be out there.
What can we do? What’s our contribution to making sure that we’re doing it the right way, reducing energy costs? There’s many, many factors of it. That’s absolutely something that our business participates in and will continue to do so.
Ron: Mikayla, we’ll give you the last word.
Mikayla: Sure. I think the hope that I feel with the road map is really that we can bring together all kinds of different players in the sector for this sustainable growth over the next 10 years.
I really do think with all of those players coming together, we can really position Maine as that destination to go for outdoor recreation, not only for a visitor short‑term perspective, but also bring your businesses here.
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Mikayla: Come be an employee here in Maine, and participate fully in outdoor recreation and take advantage of the beautiful natural resources of this state.
Ron: Well, I want to thank you all for coming in and get out there and enjoy it.
Jason: Thank you.
Ron: Thanks so much for joining us. All of the Maine Question podcast can be found on Apple Podcasts, Spotify and UMaine’s YouTube channel as well as its website. Questions or comments, you can send them along to mainequestion@maine.edu. This is Ron Lisnet. We’ll see you next time on The Maine Question.
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